It's been a week now and I still find myself thinking about the self proclaimed "Candyman" at the last TOC.  Talk about single handedly ruining an otherwise fun day of poker.

I was so turned off poker by his antics that I skipped my next two normal nights of playing and have only played 1 & 1/2 nights since - both at venues I was sure he would not be at.

Funny thing is, at all 3 of these tournaments, table conversation about the TOC (How'd you do in the TOC?) turned to the "Candyman".  The only word fit for print that players used to describe him was "child".  I thought it was just me letting him get under my skin - even though I was never directly involved in a hand with him or the object of his buffoonery - but apparently most everyone within earshot was bothered or as I was, extremely annoyed with his obnoxious antics.  With a half hour remaining until the later round, I actually thought it over and decided not to play because of his presence.

I realize this is poker and there are those that will use obnoxiousness and rudeness as a strategy - and I'm sure it is a usefull technique as we've all seen from televised tournaments with Mike Matusow and other professionals that employ it so well.  However, they are professionals and there are television cameras.  We are playing at bars for free with other patrons of the bars.  Read: "Other PATRONS of the bars".

If you were at a bar enjoying another activity where there might be some trash talk involved, such as watching a sporting event on TV, would it be appropriate for someone rooting for a team different than another customer's to leer her up and down and tell her she was the prettiest girl there?  And I don't mean in a cheesy pick-up line sort of way either, more in an intimidating fashion.  What about being so loud and obnoxious in declaring himself the greatest fan of his team in the world, that it was bothering customers at nearby tables trying to watch their teams play on different TVs?

I venture to say that you might ask management of the establishment to do something about the jerk.  But since this is poker, different rules apply.  Should they?

I don't fault Poker Pub or the establishment.  It is my understanding the situation was dealt with in the later round.  I only wish it had been dealt with earlier - or that maybe I would have voiced my concerns earlier.

On a final note, you might ask what makes my having a good time more important than another's good time.  My answer is that it's not just my good time being ruined.  The good of the many outweighs the good of the few.

Sorry for the long winded-ness!  Those of you that know me know that's one of my hallmarks!  I would be interested in any one else's comments on this type of situation, how you would have handled it, how should it have been handled, I need to get a life, etc.!

BTW, lest this be taken as an anonymous degradation, Candyman: we've played and spoken many times before and I normally don't have a problem with your style of play.  However, if you've read this far, you should be able to tell I thought you went too far and were way out of line last week.  To the detriment of my eardrums I tried to ignore you by turning the volume up on my MP3 player to no avail.  One more thing - you're not bothering me, so you may as well quit with the Irish Spring schtick.

You're right. He's infantile and ruins an evening of poker by his presence. The sad fact is he thinks he's is being cute or funny.

Like you, I just try to avoid venues I expect him to frequent.  Not much else you can do I suppose. 

Hi All:

You fantasized about the Candy Man for a week???!!-- gheesh get a life-we need to call Dr Phil in here-- Hey folks lets face it- the Candyman is his own presence but none of his behavior holds a candle to the following:

1) A certain player has been in no less than four  fist fights-- at different venues in the Poker Pub--this guy has physicaly intimidated other players and physically threatened players (including myself) -but only after you beat him in a hand---- Did they ban him ?? NOPE!!Of course all four fights were NEVER his fault according to him.... he has played the next day after a fist fight and he has been allowed to come back carte blanche. I have NEVER heard the Candyman physically threaten any player. 

2) A few  nights back I had a table of eight mysteriously play a complete round ( 8 hands) AND fold in my $800.00 blind in the 3 minutes I spent walking the 80 feet from the table to the bathroom at Bean House-- hmmmm you can't even deal the hands that fast=obviously a few hands were skipped- When I came back they had put my small blind in- ghees how did that happen???-- Several players were on the same team....

3) Tuesday night at Bean House an unnamed player yelled very loudly so everyone could hear  CANDYMAN IS  A "Mother F-ing  C**k  Su***R, and a stupid Co** Su**** -but he was not asked to leave. The next day at the Rec Room the same player  called the Candyman - CandyBit**-- but again everything was ok-- And Again I have never heard Candyman cuss a single player out and according to the response I have read here- no else has.

4) Last night at the Bean house I folded a players cards who was not at the table-- The dealer reaches into the muck and pulls the cards out--That should have never been allowed . I was given the option to alllow it-and I did ,simply because I want people to have fun and not feel excluded -- at either rate we have a lot of cheating going on in this tournamnet -- I can give several more examples but I will decline at this time...Candyman will never cheat-- I know that for a fact and so do most of you. 

Hmmmm let me see if I can figure this out???....Fist fights, cheating, collusion, cursing, and name calling are all behaviors that are not in need of correcting--ok at the PP-- But if the Candyman calls himself such-- or says "Pass me the candy" you guys whig out-- ??? Someone please explain this to me as the contradiction is glaring.!

Heres what I think...

You guys are hating on him because he can whop you on any given day.and he probably has so this is your way of geting back at him-- ohhh the candyman said paass the candy...

.. If he isn't the best player in St Louis or at least a top three-- you guys wouldn't care-- but since he wins a lot -- you guys need to figure a way to try and neutralize himin this tournament-- nuff said.... How Pathetic

The INDISPUTIBLE FACTS

WILLIAM SEAGRAVES (aka Candman)  has won the K-Fans Tournament-- more chip sets then anyone- more single tournaments (not TOCs), more table tops, and more gift certificates then ANY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE LOU!! It's just how he rolls.

Dont hate the player hate the game

later - peace love

tingfish 

xxxxx

According to all the posts I have read here there is nothing in the American style of poker that he did that was wrong--

I read your "Candyman" stuff (all of them) but this last one doesn't seem to fit.  Did you mean it to ge in another forum discussion or something?

 It seems to be about team play and although I disagree with you about Candyman I DO agree that the team play currently going on is causing chip dumping and collusion and that sucks.

As for your Candyman replies:

1. I never commented on his play good or bad.  One of the top 3 in St. Louis?   . . . he may be good but not that good. The best players in St. Louis are not even playing freeroll poker.

2. I only recall him knocking me off a table once. In fact I've only been at his table maybe half a dozen times total.  I can name lots of players who've knocked me out far more often. 

3. I prefer playing with good players. The game makes more sense and I learn more.

4. His volume level involves entire rooms not just his table and his comments ARE infantile, as are those made by Mike the Mouth, Phil the Brat, etc.  How good a player may be isn't the point. He may be as good as them for all I know but I don't know what else to call their trash talk.  Intellectual???? Hardly.

5. I put my picture up so everybody knows who is making these comments. I'm not saying anything I wouldn't or haven't said face-to-face to anybody but I did refrain from actually mentioning his name. I even stopped calling him by another nickname (starts with N) because I heard he didn't like it.  He chose the name Candyman so that's what I think was appropriate.

 Freeroll poker is for fun. I hate to have my evening ruined as do a lot of others.  If it were for real money then that's a whole different game.  You do everything you can to get an edge playing for money and I have no problem with that. 

"I was always taught to respect my elders but it keeps getting harder and harder to find one."

I don't have a pic to post- but I might get one-I think Candyman is  at least top 3 in freeroll- not professional- (of course that was the topic here- playing in PP format)-- I am here to have a good time-- I will no let someone spoil my good time-- I hope this team play equates to a lot of fun for the summer- thank you for your reply-- we still have free speech in "Merika--

later  

peace

love

tingfish 

later

 Ya, I guess you are right, Candyman is way better than me at poker, I mean, Im in 7th place in points (Travis Wood)and I play 3 nights per week, sometimes 2) in big tourneys in North County.  Check how many times I took double points, 2 or 3 times?  When the prize was some $3 hat from Wal Mart. The people ahead of me I heard straight from their mouths play 5 - 7 nights per week mostly in small 1 or 2 table tourney's. So yea, I guess you got me on that one, I'm just jealous of his skills.

candyman,  hes so easy a caveman could do him!

When I first started playing with Candyman, I found him a bit annoying at times, but the more I play at tables with him, the more I understand why he does what he does.  He's tilting people with his actions and he's having fun doing it.  If you don't like it, play else where or do what I do, wear headphones when you play so you can drown out the noise. 

 Like him or not, Candyman is a good player, maybe even a great player, but most certainly a lucky player.  He is all across the board on his methods of play, which makes him very difficult to read.  He loud voice just adds to the distraction because you end up having people trying to take him out making it personal and that's when he goes on the attack and knocks people out. 

 For people out there who find him annoying, my suggestion would be to find something to help drown him out because you are going to find players like him everywhere you go, whether it is free poker or casino poker.

It's my experience that you usually get as much respect as you've earned.  He can't expect people to stop trashing him until he starts treating them with a little more respect. (Respect as a person not poker player)  Until then he can't expect anything better than they way he is treated now.  I try to be courtious by avoiding names he doesn't like.  I even tried to be personable with him in my early encounters but it was a waste of time.

If that's his chosen style . . . fine.  He has to live with the consequences of that style.

"I was always taught to respect my elders but it keeps getting harder and harder to find one."

Wow, I leave town for 2 weeks and all hell breaks loose.

Tingfish, I have spoken with you and we are investigating the "threats" and "cheating".  As I tell everyone, if you suspect someone is cheating, please call over a floorman so that it can be investigated.  If we are made aware of it the next day not much can be done.

As far as the "4 fist fights" at Poker Pub events....I find it strange that I haven't even heard about 1 of them.  Physical aggression is not tolerated, and any player that exhibits physical aggression will be permanantly banned from the league. If you would like to PM me the name of the individual, I will look into it.

To everyone else who has posted under this topic, your concerns are heard...action is being taken...and a few of you I have followed up with personally.

Kristan Delgado
Can't Beat Stupid!!!

Actually, we have some additional goodies in the works - look for an announcement by July 15th...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Scott Rismiller The Poker Pub STL

    Just when you think free poker can be fun again. Candyman is gone , only to be replaced by a consistant and blatant CHEATER,   on team wrasslin.  What to watch for out of <name omitted by TPP>,  When dealing he frequently turns the deck over to see whats coming on the flop.   Also when dealing he may put his hole cards on top of the deck in case he needs better ones while in the hand.  And finally ANY TIME his HANDS are near a pot he did not win watch for chip scooping ( I've personally seen him scoop 1500 out of a pot during the excitement of a big one)

    poker pub has not seen fit to actually DO ANYTHING about this blatant cheat so its on all of you. Dont have fun or conversate keep an eye on the cheater POKER PUB won't 

    So sorry,maybe making due process transparent, when at least 30 players witness a cheat being tossed,could be helpful.  Especially when seated across from said cheat the next day.